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Debate for everyone...

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sam05



Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 74
Location: canada
Debate for everyone...

I am including a written debate/question that I posed to a gay male friend. What I didn't tell him (so as not to receive a possibly biased answer), was that the 'theory' came from a couple of other gay men.
(Just to be fair, there were responses from other gay men as he posted this in a blog and all were of the same opinion as A).
I want to know what everyone here thinks about this.

Theory: lesbians are not really gay so much as they hate men.

Conversation:

Sam: Question for you...do you, in your own opinion, think someone can 'turn' gay? Can they wake up one morning, say, 'geeze, I think I'd like to experience being with someone of my own sex', like it/feel more comfortable, and decide they are gay? Or do you feel that it is inherent...or, with a belief in God/gods/goddesses, do you think one is pre-destined?

A: I don't think you can "turn someone gay" - I think that sexuality is not a gay or straight thing - and that most people are bisexual. Society just makes us choose a team. I mean - most people can at least identify a good looking person of the same sex, if they admit it or not. I think it all kind of grows from there. I call myself gay - and yet to date the most significant relationship I had was with a woman. I still think women are beautiful, and miss some aspects of being with a woman. I think the labels are the issue.
I do believe in destiny, and in Karma. I choose to be in this life for a reason (I wish I had of checked the Rich and handsome boxes before I started out lol). How we react and grow from the lessons we have chosen to learn, is the key.


Sam: Sorry for taking so long in getting back to you, A****.
Your words were my exact stance on the debate. I think that most folks are bi, whether one acts on it or not.

The debate stemmed from someone telling me that 'lesbians are not truly gay so much as they are afraid of, or have a hate on for men due to being abused' (by fathers, brothers, uncles, husbands, etc)' and this is why 'women come out late in life' (hence the 'gee, I think I'll try a woman') and, I am assuming, after marriage.
I took exception to this statement and repudiated it (though quietly), by culling observations from other lesbians and straights. I found out that just as many straight women had been abused as lesbians - not all, but some, yes.
As per 'coming out late'... in my opinion (in my own life), (we) knew who we were, but because of societal and familial expectancies (consider the age), wore the proverbial mask, if you will.
Thankfully, it is a more relaxed society now than when I was young, but no one can assume what goes on behind closed doors.

Am I making sense?


A: absolute sense - I think there is a similar idea that all gay men were victims of some type of childhood trauma. Honestly, weren't we all victims of some childhood trauma? Some worse then others - some able to work past it while others are not.

Post Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:54 pm 
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Eiregirl



Joined: 21 Jul 2005
Posts: 10230
Location: Chasing a pink bunny


I think you answered yourself very well...

"I took exception to this statement and repudiated it (though quietly), by culling observations from other lesbians and straights. I found out that just as many straight women had been abused as lesbians - not all, but some, yes.
As per 'coming out late'... in my opinion (in my own life), (we) knew who we were, but because of societal and familial expectancies (consider the age), wore the proverbial mask, if you will."

Whoever thinks we are lesbians because we were abused as children are in my humble opinion uninformed and ignorant. I am lesbian...my lover is obviously lesbian and neither of use were sexually abused as children. The vast majority of the gay men and women that I know very well were never abused as children. So as I said whoever came up with that lame assed idea needs to get their facts straight.

Hugs,
Eiregirl Arrow
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Post Thu Jun 14, 2007 4:31 am 
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Dark prism



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 865
Location: California Dreamin, baby.


This theory has been debated in two other threads in this section. Here are the links if you are interested.

http://www.melswebs.com/generalboards/viewtopic.php?t=3918

http://www.melswebs.com/generalboards/viewtopic.php?t=4468


Dp

Post Thu Jun 14, 2007 8:57 am 
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sam05



Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Posts: 74
Location: canada


Eiregirl - thanks for responding.
Whoever thinks we are lesbians because we were abused as children are in my humble opinion uninformed and ignorant - I agree with you.
If something is said/written as a statistic or non-debatable issue, then I want proof.

Dark Prism - thanks for the links. I have quickly scanned them and will re-read later.

I think my biggest beef was not really what was said but by whom. When member(s) of the same community seemingly adjudicate all the inaccuracies that we have been trying to erase, I get my back up. In my eyes (they) are just re-building the roadblocks that are finally starting to come down.

Yet like I said, to be fair, it wasn't the whole of the community.

Sam

Post Thu Jun 14, 2007 1:38 pm 
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smart_cookie



Joined: 12 Aug 2006
Posts: 2310
Location: USA


Abuse would not instill the primal attraction that I feel towards women. While it might make a person reject the gender of her abuser, it would not create an involuntary, positive physical sexual reaction to one's own gender.

As for everyone being bi, I don't buy it, (bi it? lol) except in the very broadest sense. Yes, everyone probably has the capability of loving someone of either sex. But no matter how sweet or wonderful a person a man might be--and therefore inspire me to love the person that he is--I would still be loving him DESPITE his physical maleness, not because of it. And I just simply can't imagine having a strictly physical lust for a male.

At the risk of being crude, and I am giving due warning...a gf of mine hit the nail on the head when she said, sure, you might think a certain man is cute or funny or sweet; but do you want to go down on him? And the answer is always no.

So, I am not bi, and I didn't "turn" Lesbian, it is in me, part of me. I never "decided" either one, these things are simply what is, for me.

Arrow

Cookie

Post Mon Aug 06, 2007 11:29 am 
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Dark prism



Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 865
Location: California Dreamin, baby.


I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said, Cookie. Well said.


Dp
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Post Tue Aug 07, 2007 9:22 am 
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luvinmomofone1



Joined: 26 Oct 2007
Posts: 40
Location: oklahoma usa


i myself have been bisexual most of my life and because of peer and family was afriad to come out until the last few years..being hurt by men was a big reason why i came all the way out! but i know that for most gay and lesbians that it is something inherent that they have believed and known about themselves all their lives..weather they showed it or stayed in the closet was on them..case in point..my half sister is now 19..she is in a lesbian relationship. my dad and step mom know i am lesbian and blame me of all ppl for her choices!! they live in penna and i live in oklahoma..shes 18 and i am 41 and me and alyssa hardly talk cause she never sees me except every 4 years or so and we never got around to being close..i'm old enuff to be her mom..my son is 17 and thats his aunt!! what i am getting at is alyssa has confided in me that she was always attracted to women and considered herself bisexual but rose..her mom..thinks that its just a phase and refuses to accept it cause alyssa used to date guys!! all this came to a head cause dad is crittically ill and on the verge of dying so i cannot say for sure if this is really coming out or her way of rebeling and throwing stuff up in her mom and our dads face for her feelings about dad dying..its all a big mess!!
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Post Fri Oct 26, 2007 10:26 pm 
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