I need some help understanding. Goto page 1, 2Next
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visitor Guest
I need some help understanding.
I am writing a college paper that is "suppose" to explain why some women are lesbians. The problem is, the only kind of info that I am coming up with is stuff that Freud has researched. I am not a lesbian myself and niether was Freud. So, I figure the only way to find out the truth is to ask a lady (or ladies) who have first hand knowledge. Could anyone help me with my paper?
there's not really some scientific method or reasoning behind why some women are lesbians and some are not. it's really not a matter of choice.
i can't speak for everyone but i can speak for myself (usually). i personally wasn't comfortable for the longest time with the thought of dating guys or what have you. everytime someone asked if i thought so and so was cute i'd clam up because i didn't care about that guy. i mean i usually ended up saying something because they'd hound me until i did. but it was along the lines of...i can see how he might be attractive to someone. but other than that i couldn't give any better answer.
now i didn't really realize what was up until high school but then again i grew up pretty sheltered, my mother wasn't too keen on letting us do a lot of stuff so i was very naive until i decided to take matters into my own hands, *chuckles*.
but as i look back on my life now, i can see that i've always been attracted to girls. even way back in kindergarten. i mean why else would i get butterfiles in my stomach everytime one or or another looked my way, ^_~. and plus there were those...*ahem*...er...nevermind that...*grins*.
women are not lesbians because of some strange suppressed sexual urges that trace back to their mothers (aka freud), lol...or whatever. it's not a matter of choice...it's not preference...it's just who we are. we enjoy the companionship of women, are physically attracted to them, and most of us have been this way since we can remember. not that we knew right away (well some of might have but eh...) what was up. but eventually we figured things out.
and just talking about homosexuality in general...it's been around for a long time. just go back through and read some stuff on the greeks and romans (both men and women...though stuff on women is harder to find). same sex relationships were not as uncommon as people like to think.
i don't know if any of that helped. but just think about the attraction you feel towards men. we feel that same pull towards women. it's not a matter of labeling this or that it's just a matter of finding what makes us...well us.
good luck with the paper.
~chance _________________ Timing is everything...unfortunately I'm too early or too late.
Sun Oct 17, 2004 5:34 pm
visitor Guest
Thanks Chance. I was afraid that no one would respond. Your insight helped a lot. Can I ask you this? When you were growing up were you the "tom-boyish" type? The reason I asked is because while growing up, my best friend and I were both "tom-boys" and inseperable. We were the best of friends until she revieled her secret, and I know what your thinking, but I'm not the one who shyed away from the friendship. (although, if she hadn't I'd have probably pissed my pants!!) So, my question now is... Why or How could two people who were so much alike, end up so differently?? I would really just like a little info on what happened if you'd like to take a stab at it.
sure ask away my friend...i'll answer as best as i can.
and to answer your question...yes i was and still am quite tomboyish. i don't know why but i've always prefered guys clothes and styles more so than girls. it still takes a threat of bodily harm to get me in a dress...^_~. lol, but i'm a bit better when it comes to things now i guess. i still don't wear make up or anything like that but i'm a pretty natural kind of gal.
as for your friend, i'm sure she had her reasons. probably all of which had a basis of trying to prevent herself from being hurt. she might have thought that if she ended the friendship first then there wouldn't be the feeling of rejection or something if you were adverse to her being a lesbian. or something along those linse anyway.
when i was in middle school i had a very close friend for about a year. we did pretty much everything together. both of us were really tomboyish and wanted to become vets and move to alaska. as i said we were very close. but the next year we weren't in the same class so we drifted apart. she changed moreso than i, in my point of view...but then again i probably changed more to her.
but anyway later when i was in high school and had moved to another state, a friend of mine who i still kept in contact with back then told me that she was gay. now this wasn't such a big surprise to me but it still was interesting to hear about. i didn't come out to anyone until two years later. it makes you wonder doesn't it...
but it makes quite a bit of sense now. though i was never attracted to this girl...the closeness we shared was defnitely different than what i had with my other friends. especially the ones i found attractive.
but going back to the tomboyish thing. i think when i was growing up it was sort of an unconscious way of me (because i didn't know what was up until much later in my life) showing everyone else that i wasn't going to fit the mold that society had allotted women. now i dress and act the way i do because that's just how i am. i mean i grew up this way and it's stuck with me.
but you do have to realize something. back in the day of baby boomers and the like, a lot of lesbians were emulating straight couples. aka femme and butch. i think this is where the whole tomboyish thing really kicked off. because it was a way for lesbians to "act out" in a way. i'm not really sure i'm saying this correctly but...yeah anyway. these days the line has blurred and there isn't such a rigid way of acting and the roles are so defined. it's just women, ^_^.
again i'm babbling like an idiot but i hope that some of that helped.
~chance _________________ Timing is everything...unfortunately I'm too early or too late.
Mon Oct 18, 2004 2:31 am
joan Guest
ok
ok, I'm a lesbian and I'm damn proud of it. Am I a lesbian because of some extenuating circumstance? Daman right!!! I hate men cause they hate me! I have no comfort but in a won's arm. If I was skinny and all that these sick males wanted me to be, yah, I'd be straight, but it's not the reality. The fact is, I can only hope to be with a male that ugly, hairy, and crass. I don't want that so I chose lesbianism. Is that wrong???
Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:26 am
HartEnFeu
Joined: 19 Jun 2004
Posts: 103
Location: Florida
Joan that is not wrong at all. You do what you feel. you like women so there ya go. Be with women if they make yo happy. Trust me you're not missing out anything with guys. TRUST ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Roxie
Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:19 pm
visitor Guest
Joan Maybe I shouldn't say anything but.... I think everyone should be happy. I'm not so skinny myself(to say the least) and if my husband didn't love me for who I am and just talked about the way I looked, I'd be pretty ticked off too! Would you like to talk about it? I'd understand if you didn't.
Tue Oct 19, 2004 2:25 am
Eaglet
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 13
well on my part i don't look like a tomboy, i've always been dressing very girlishly, and that might be one reason why nobody quite suspect im lesbian. from young im fond of other girls, and im also more attracted to feminine ladies than the tomboyish kinds.
i have ever date boys but nothing ever comes of it and most often i didnt like to be attached to them and since im still quite "closetted" here so nobody really know my true preferences.
with other ladies i seldom notice "cute guys" until they gushed and giggled over it and then i will be like "oooooooooh". im sorta slow here to notice but usually i will pretend along and go "yeah cute" or something.
hope that helps.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:52 am
FearlessAngel
Joined: 19 Oct 2004
Posts: 6
Location: Sacramento, CA
quote:Originally posted by Eaglet:
well on my part i don't look like a tomboy, i've always been dressing very girlishly, and that might be one reason why nobody quite suspect im lesbian. from young im fond of other girls, and im also more attracted to feminine ladies than the tomboyish kinds.
That is EXACTLY what I have to deal with... I am pretty femmy. Sometimes, if I'm completely dressed down, I can look a little like a tomboy, but most of the time I dress very nice, and girly. So, most women don't even know I am a lesbian. I've been frequenting my local woman's bar for over a year now, and I still have a hard time... I know it's because I look straight and carry a purse. (a very nice one, might I add) I am also more attracted to femmes than tomboys. I FINALLY met someone a few weeks ago, and I think things are taking off... but she didn't even think I was gay at first! Kinda sucks!
hmmm...i suppose i could pull off a more girlish look if i wanted to. but it's not something that i would really do. getting dressed up nice and all tis not my cup of tea. i'm happy in cargo shorts and a t-shirt. ^^.
i'm a very laid back kinda girl...^^. i always joke that if i could make a beach bum a profession i'd do it in a heart beat.
~chance _________________ Timing is everything...unfortunately I'm too early or too late.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:22 pm
Floridagirl
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Florida
Dear Visitor,
I am a lesbian, and I feel born that way. That being the case, I can't explain why - I just am.
I have read that researchers are finding more and more that lesbians have brains that "look" more like men's brains, and vice versa. Also, I have heard that lesbians have a higher level of testosterone (spelling?) in their bodies than do straight women, and gay men less levels than straight men.
You may want to look into that. . . .hope it helps.
Floridagirl
Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:24 pm
Floridagirl
Joined: 27 Sep 2004
Posts: 43
Location: Florida
Dear Visitor
P.S. . . .
In response to Joan's post, please don't assume that "hating men" is a lesbian stereotype because it isn't. I don't exactly understand Joan's intense anger. Joan- have you had really bad experiences with men?
I've been gay my entire life, and I have no hostility toward men whatsoever. I can even see the beauty in some male physique's. I also have male friends (gay and straight) . . . it's just that I have no desire to enter into a romantic relationship with a male.
Just my 2 cents
Floridagirl
Wed Oct 20, 2004 7:31 pm
jlybn57
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 15
Location: Kansas City metro area
For me, being a lesbian is not something I chose. It is just who I am. I don't personally hate men. I think many (not all) men are wonderful (and many women aren't!). I am just not physically attracted to men at all.
In regard to the stereotypes about looks...I have been told "you don't look like a lesbian" a lot, but when my partner and I go places together (I mean places like the grocery store and crap) people often can tell that we're a couple. *shrug* I don't know if this helps any at all, sorry. _________________ "There is nothing mixed up about a woman who loves women, who wants to have sex with them, or who identifies as a lesbian. It is society that is mixed up because it punishes people for not conforming to its gender stereotypes."
~ Edward Stein
Thu Oct 21, 2004 9:14 pm
visitor Guest
You guys are a big help
Thanks Guys!
Any and All input helps. I am pretty much ignorant of the whole subject and I really don't think I'm going to find any of the answers I'm looking for in the "stuffy old books" in the library. I really appreciate you guys sharing your stories with me. Keep them coming!
Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:48 pm
novi_astley Guest
a good website i have found on all things glbtq is www.glbtq.com it's basically an online encyclopaedia, which i find really handy, cos i'm so new to the community and i like to know what i'm getting into.
as for some random stuff i know the concept of butch/femme has been documented as early as the victorian period (thats as early as i've seen it), there has been links between homosexuality and hormone exposure to the pre-natal baby, nothing solid, but its still an interesting concept, tomboyism(or sissy-boyism with males) hasnt really proven a concrete indicator of homosexuality in children, more an instinctive disregard for adhearing to the social norms of gender behaviour.
Homosexuality has also been seen in pretty much every animal species ever monitored for any length of time or kept in captivity, its documentation is kinda sketchy though, most documentors put it down to an individuals 'confusion' though, i personally find that pretty hard to swallow, considering how effectively feremones work to indicate an animals gender, just like with us
another random snippet of most likely useless info is that when Homosexuality was taken out of the list of mental illness and disorders back in the 70's i think it was, it was immediately replaced with 'sissy boy syndrome' - highly effeminate boys, basically, it was later removed too.
whether thats worth anythin to you or not, idk, but i got most of that from the website above.
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